So what would space combat be like eh - Discuss space stuff

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Postby Praetor Ryan » Wed Jul 18, 2001 1:55 pm

So what would space combat be like eh, many say large space vessels are senseless, PLZ dont get too technical, be inventive, I think large vessals do have there good sides, and are valid war vessals, drones smaller vessals definatelly have their advantages.......
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Postby alexpicard » Wed Jul 18, 2001 5:13 pm

sorry to say it wont happen, earth has wasted time in war. instead of the above.

there last chance was 1800's
then maybe we could have tried more
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Postby Site Manager » Wed Jul 18, 2001 6:21 pm

I have to agree with alexpicard...
We went from cars to planes to space and the moon in thirty years or so...If that had continued like it should... then technically and statisticly we should have colonies on several planets and landed people on mars and pluto by now!
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Postby Eros935 » Wed Jul 18, 2001 9:50 pm

I don't know, I agree we should have done more but to say that its never going to happen now and that we have lost the chance is just insane! in fact I'd wager that the more we wait the bigger and more well prepared to go into space and beyond, that is to say we have problems here on earth to fix first then go off on exploration but since this whole thing is totally off topic I'll break here.

As for space combat itself well thats difficult to deside, but I think if there was to be combat on a massive scale, that AI driven fighters or something of the like might be used, its hard for me to tell really
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Postby Sith4dmin » Wed Jul 18, 2001 11:47 pm

Quote: from Site Manager on 5:21 pm on July 18, 2001
I have to agree with alexpicard...
We went from cars to planes to space and the moon in thirty years or so...If that had continued like it should... then technically and statisticly we should have colonies on several planets and landed people on mars and pluto by now!


Have you been hitting the fun pipe? Cars and aricraft were both products of the turn of the century, whereas manned moon missions didn't happen until almost 70 years after that. Yes, it is true we should have been to Mars by now, but the Challenger accident killed that (or at least funding and thus popular support, not to mention that the end of the Cold War left us with nobody to really race against for space achievement ). And Pluto? Do you have any conception at all what kind of effort it would take to get a crew to Pluto? It staggers the mind!
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Postby cv » Thu Jul 19, 2001 7:26 am

I feel that space combat would involve extremely long range weapons. Planet vs planet from the get go. Why construct a faster than light ship of any size to travel 99.99% of the way to a target just to unload a slow moving light payload weapon. I think that battlefield intelligence will be the limiting factor. The way to increase the sphere of influence would be to have a network of space stations that could deploy hard hitting long range weaponry and report status to home planet.
The role of Starships would be exploration, colonization, and policing friendly systems. If ship to ship combat occurs it would be between pirates and government agents.
We already have started down the road of fire and forget weapons so the strategy of the future will be muted at best. That is why StUn is a great game. It plays like the age of sails and cannons.
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Postby Praetor Ryan » Thu Jul 19, 2001 1:30 pm

thank u to those who replied to the topic appropiatelly, this is not about ifs, or whens its about theoreetical hows becuz thats fun to talk about... Oh and theres plenty of time to get to the #### stars we got 5 billion years, ok also, statistics dont follow logic, a combustion engine is a load simpler than say I dunno, Building a whole factory in space or mastering ffaster than light travel per say, if you really want to complain, well I dunno wed be a galctic empire statistically if the roman empire didnt fall... As for interstellar weapons, they require massive power, like more than safe to produce on your planet plus deployment, planet roatations are a bummer, so ships will have their day
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Postby Sith4dmin » Thu Jul 19, 2001 4:51 pm

I could see the logic in fighting interstellar wars with giant missiles or something, but how would interception be prevented? I could see a network of early warning stations easily preventing such attacks by scrambling ships or using energy weapons to destroy incoming missiles. And if you try to use energy weapons for interstellar conflict, you're nuts, the power that would be necessary to get a damage-causing (let alone a heavy damage-causing) beam to another planet approaches the infinite.
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Postby Praetor Ryan » Thu Jul 19, 2001 9:50 pm

Interstellar beam planetary weaponry power is near infinate thank you, (i could quote some physics But I dont like that too many numbers)... Interstellar missles would be used in CONJUNCTION with other attack forms, using asteroid fields to hide them would be good, launching comets too.... Fleets ship to ship combat would happen I think, simply because you want to information on the target, long range this is not good, but ships can handle this fine... More importantlly, you may want to conquer not bombard, this requires a fleet, plus the ships you bring would or may need to be factories themselves, conquering a world is no easy task, the MotherShip tactic becomes valid here. ..... If you could get beam weapons frm planet to planet, it still would not obsolete ships.... becauser these beams couldnt do shit to say a fleets approaching on all vectors,.. Defense station and early warning systems could stop missles, but its unlikelly, the missle would be stopped in orbit most likely, Unless you make sure they go BOOM really big, and can have them detonate outside weapons range, but I digress a ship could easilly intercept... dont discount Bio weapons either, have some preliminary plagues hit them before fleet arrives anyway, in planet vs. planet the one thing you can count on is long travel times... which make fleet battles very pecular, yr enemy could be years away, plenty of time for scouting good locations.. weaknesses, formations, but the victor would be unstoppable if both worlds entire fleets clashed, this depends on force and style of course..
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Postby Eros935 » Thu Jul 19, 2001 10:31 pm

I'd be more interested in defencive measures, IE what kind of armor you'd need to prevent hull breaches because once you lose the air on a ship the crew is screwed, a rather effective way to destroy your enemy, pierce a hole in the hull and you win, or even protection from types of radiation, you wouldn't even need to destroy the enemy's ships or whatever just the enemy itself.
Unfortunatly my ideas on this subject are rather limited, dunno why, guess I'm more of the explorer type then the fighting type :)
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Postby cv » Fri Jul 20, 2001 7:09 am

Interstellar energy weapons would have problems. But any critisizm of missles could also be applied to ships. Whatever energy/payload/detection/interception problems you have for missles you have 10 times for a starship. Imagine the costs involved with moving 50 humans their food, waste, gear etc to another star system with enough weaponry to threaten a city or planet. The defender would have massive advantages in stopping any attack. In the case of ships you could construct a 'home fleet' that was all weapons and no baggage at 1/100th the cost. I'm done.

Assuming ships have their day I really like the idea of a large mother ship with fighters/attack craft. Nothing better that to engage an enemy well beyond the horizon. If it comes to broadsides then energy weapons are my choice.
As for defence I think that it might be possible to create some sort of mini wormhole to deflect just about any type of weapon. Send missles/torp/standoff a few light years away and bend or distort waves/beams/bolts.
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Postby Eros935 » Fri Jul 20, 2001 7:43 am

But cv, if you could do a mini wormhole to deflect such things, couldn't you theroeticly(sp?) make a larger version for travel, given that travel would take week or months you'd almost HAVE to do that to be effective in battle, and if you did you'd not have to worry so much about food/waste/whatever as much cause it'd basicly be like said home fleet
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Postby cv » Fri Jul 20, 2001 9:44 am

Youre right. If wormhole type of travel is available then fleets stay viable. I was just contmeplating a new type of defense instead of armor or traditional shields.
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Postby Eros935 » Fri Jul 20, 2001 9:59 am

heh true, I"m kinda going at it from another angle, namely if humanity is to explore and colonize space(not talking about just in our system) we'd have tofind a faster then light drive of sorts, but it then it'd seem thats more then likely not possable, so one of the few ways I'm familar with is wormhole travel, which isn't faster then light but just the bending of space, basicly it'd kinda seem logical that you'd have something like that but for just starsystem combat I can def see the fact that it'd be a waste to send a fleet unless it was absolutly needed to(IE invasions maybe?)
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Postby Praetor Ryan » Sat Jul 21, 2001 9:41 pm

Warp is possible but requires too much power, zero point power systems could provide it, but if it go boom, well I dont want to be within the same solar system... and has not been applied yet, so maybe not possible... wormholes are a great way to go, then theres the similar Hyperspace travel idea... I like a new one Tachion Drives, tachions go faster than light, basically put the ship in bublle and pulse a crapload on yr ass you go Flying !!! supposedlly, ya know ,

as to combat, wormholes are getting pretty far for a defense, but I think they would be good miners, use wormholes to collect drifting asteroids, and collect lator, (Ie Open ended Wormhole tech) Also for combat, missles would still be good for short range at least, in many cases, the thing about ships, is ships fire back repeatedlly, not like missles who simply gooo boom.

As for defenses, the following

Shields (yahyah)
Armor
Regenerative armor (ie nano bot covering armor, that self replicates, and repairs)
Armor transportation, The idea of "beaming" armor from one part of the ship to another,

Fluid steel, this basically means you have under the armor layer a bunch of pipes, when punctured they release the fluid which immediatelly solidiies into armor,

Kinetic armor, this is an idea basically have buffer springs and flywheel generators Behind the armor, and when hit by force, it pushes back on the armor, this spins the generator, and such genmerates power, Emp shielding too of course.

Not to mention say projecting lasers over the entire surface of the craft, this could theoretically vaporize any matter trying to make contact, though not energy weapons per say.

Ive got more ill tell them soon.
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